#71 Slavko Bevanda, Chief Product & Technology Officer, Necture

00:00:02: Hi, my name is Gunnar Froh and I'm your host on the Wunder Mobility podcast.

00:00:10: Welcome to The WunderMobility Podcast!

00:00:27: Twenty years, you've intersected with his work whether you knew it or not.

00:00:32: Slavko spent five years as Chief Product and Technology Officer then COO at Chernow the merger of Car to go and drive now.

00:00:40: And still today, I believe that largest free-floating cashing operator that this industry has created so far.

00:00:47: after that he ran technology in operations at digital charging solutions.

00:00:51: That's one of Europe's largest EV charging platforms.

00:00:54: Today Slavko is the chief technology end product officer at next year The Vienna based company as he's describing it providing the intelligence and the muscles for fleet operators.

00:01:05: Nature sits on top of the fleet management platforms that operators are already running, it's adding an intelligence layer to decide what each vehicle should do.

00:01:14: next.

00:01:15: then Street Crowd a gig-based execution network gets this work done in the streets.

00:01:21: I'm not gonna spend a lot more time walking through the CV, but i would like to cover three sections in our conversation today and one is what you actually know about running free floating car sharing at scale.

00:01:34: that isn't on sort of key decisions and metrics for people to keep in mind.

00:01:41: Two is exactly how nature works, maybe we can dive into some examples and numbers really understand what this product does?

00:01:50: And then three let's talk about autonomy and what happens in our industry when autonomy actually lands on these shared feeds which will probably be a hybrid of self-driven autonomous vehicles maybe already missing?

00:02:05: or what should we get started thinking about today.

00:02:08: Slavko, welcome to the show!

00:02:10: Thank you very much Gunnar for the introduction really while putting a lot of pressure on my shoulders but first of all thank you for having me in your show.

00:02:17: it's really pleasure and an honor being here looking forward to this session with you.

00:02:25: free-floating car sharing that I think also.

00:02:27: many people in the audience are either working or observing, interested and you have this deep experience first being building car sharing from the ground really scaling to multiple cities countries large fleet size.

00:02:43: And then today we're working with multiple operators providing additional technology for them metrics that are not necessarily shared so widely, and I think one of the most important in caching is utilization rate.

00:02:58: Can you give everybody a feeling for at what point?

00:03:03: At which utilization rates can free-floating cashing start to become profitable?

00:03:07: What we aiming for?

00:03:10: Wow!

00:03:11: Starting right ahead with pretty challenging question.

00:03:14: Thank You very much For That.

00:03:16: It Depends Of Course Always Let's Say On the size of the car sharing service provider, on the setup.

00:03:21: On the other hand side means how much technology do you build your in-house?

00:03:27: How high are your fixed costs?

00:03:30: and if you're consuming or buying let's say... operate on a smaller scale, maybe or start like this.

00:03:37: Then you have of course the totally different costs set up.

00:03:39: that's one point.

00:03:40: but in terms of giving an indication about the possible utilization rate when you start to be profitable I would probably say it depends as well offcourse on the fleet size But somewhere between let's see four maybe five two seven rides per car per day.

00:03:55: then You were for sure scratching the profitability Or even being above it and there is depending City, how much movement is being in that city?

00:04:07: There's of course more music even if you look into some really exciting and bustling cities.

00:04:12: Is it Vienna for instance or is this Milano or Berlin?

00:04:17: You mentioned the most exciting markets.

00:04:20: maybe Berlin-Milan.

00:04:22: what does great looks like?

00:04:23: these are the best cities to look at in terms of utilization?

00:04:28: Berlin, of course.

00:04:30: If you want to do mobility and prove that you're able to provide a really strong service then Berlin is for sure the city-to-be.

00:04:38: all partners are there operating as well.

00:04:42: I mean it depends on your fleet size.

00:04:46: but i would say looking into that probably between seven to nine rides per car per day absolutely feasible impossible in berlin Looking to some other bustling cities, maybe Milano probably even more if I look into this.

00:05:00: It depends as well on the user behavior of customers.

00:05:04: but you can drive it incentivized is a pricing-wise steered?

00:05:07: Is it availability and after awhile we will get there between seven to ten rides per cup a day absolutely feasible in such city?

00:05:15: And

00:05:16: then we are talking about dense environments, rather short trips maybe compared to more station based car sharing.

00:05:23: So we're talking free floating shorter inner city trips, may be even seven or nine trips per day.

00:05:28: what kind of utilization though does in like percentage off the fleet as that translate into and how does it change during today?

00:05:35: Because I think that sounds to anybody in this D like amazing if you had seven on nine rides per day but In reality It still means the cars empty most at a time right.

00:05:42: Like What's The Average?

00:05:44: just a roughly like rental time and then percentage utilization of such.

00:05:48: I mean, the rental duration depends of course for instance as well on the city.

00:05:52: If you look if i maybe briefly move to another City like Amsterdam probably the average duration of a trip would be between fifteen and twenty five minutes per car per ride.

00:06:03: in Berlin where you may have to do longer rides through me moving from a suburb into this city center or it depends your mobility mode You want to choose Probably more between twenty two forty minutes depending is while here And Milano probably as well, twenty five thirty minutes per ride like this.

00:06:21: to give you an indication.

00:06:23: Probably regarding the utilization rate I would probably say something around twenty-five to thirty-five percent is absolutely feasible to achieve that.

00:06:33: but your right if you look into it's still majority of today where the car is not used.

00:06:39: basically of course yeah.

00:06:40: so i thought super interesting coming at this whole topic from an operations angle and basically it's about utilization of these expensive assets.

00:06:50: And even like in a best case scenario, dense city kind of well established sharing and maybe seven to nine rides per day thirty minute average trip You know, that's basically two hundred forty minutes like four hours.

00:07:00: So you're still at your twenty to thirty percent and what else might this asset be doing in the future as it's becoming autonomous?

00:07:07: But the other sort of driver off.

00:07:10: I think that success on the market is the density And I think you guys also do a lot of work on this figuring out What minimum fleet size is necessary and so on.

00:07:19: Do have some orders ball parks benchmarks In your head if somebody launching city how to calculate sort of minimum viable fleet size?

00:07:29: This depends of course as well.

00:07:31: on a lot of variables.

00:07:34: If you look at it, how intense is the movement across the city?

00:07:38: On one hand side what's about availability and density?

00:07:41: as well as hubs?

00:07:43: means public transportation hubs for instance?

00:07:46: this and also how far away are main hubs or target destinations and origin destinations?

00:07:56: so all those things play into account.

00:08:00: And the density of course, is another variable you have to consider.

00:08:05: So for a city maybe if we're in mid-sized cities easily can launch something like three or two hundred... Maybe let's take into account Stuttgart as something like this around two to four hundred cars per city depends how much you want to drive it To Berlin which will talk about several thousand.

00:08:24: Is there a perfect indication or a KPI?

00:08:27: I could provide, stay here probably not.

00:08:30: But i would say probably five to fifteen cars per square kilometer.

00:08:33: maybe it could be an indication of the range you can pick up and take into account when your thinking about from free-floating car sharing perspective because If you want to change the mobility behavior or mode of how customers are moving around, You need on one hand time to change this because the customer needs various cars and different modes.

00:08:59: In the end they don't wanna think about it but come from A-B.

00:09:02: so its all really about having an easy access in most possible convenience.

00:09:07: here.

00:09:08: One part of the convenience is, of course as well.

00:09:11: The walking distance to a car, that means closer you are... ...to where customers want to start this trip?

00:09:19: The better!

00:09:19: Is it we already saw?

00:09:21: if a customer has to walk one thousand kilometers or even more than the willingness is less….

00:09:29: …or have a competitor with better availability than you will probably not be able to convince the customers.

00:09:37: So within five hundred meters is three, four or five hundred metres, probably the perfect walking distance in the average?

00:09:44: You should be able provide your customer but it's always a compromise that we need to figure out terms of availability costs and revenue you are targeting for in a city.

00:09:56: Basically saying they're looking for convenience reliability Availability.

00:10:01: so density is sort of the operator lingo how many cars they need to put.

00:10:05: but really what's driving it?

00:10:07: Is there end user view.

00:10:09: What's my availability kind of service level and you mentioned their The Yeah, willingness to walk.

00:10:16: I always have a car for you in this city.

00:10:17: just questions if its close close to You.

00:10:20: did you guys look at How sort of acceptance rate drops off when the car is further away.

00:10:28: You mentioned maybe three to five hundred meters, most.

00:10:30: where does it drop often?

00:10:31: How steeply does a drop-off?

00:10:33: or does it depend again on the city and under user groups?

00:10:37: It depends on one side.

00:10:38: Of course in offering means that at some point this distance might be even let's say preferences regarding car models, vehicle types.

00:10:47: If you have competitors who maybe have more attractive cars it's always let us say of course a question or personal choice.

00:10:57: if you want to jump on the more valuable car for instance then you might be even willing to walk longer getting into that car.

00:11:05: but in the end I would say the perfect distance is probably five hundred seven hundred meter and already can i stay here.

00:11:12: a percentage.

00:11:12: no dare to stay here percentage, but you can see that it definitely significantly drops when your far away than thousand meters for instance.

00:11:20: Then should be already a pretty strong push and finally depends as well on the weather conditions.

00:11:26: means if its raining I don't think customer would be willing more likely look for a different mobility mode.

00:11:40: Is it public transportation or whatever?

00:11:45: So there are still lots of variables where it depends on different factors, probably in the hundreds of meters that's acceptable and its dropping off quickly.

00:11:54: And you mentioned this example that often here maybe theres better car like willingness to walk with better cars.

00:12:01: going to push back a little bit on this because I feel like there's might be sort of the petrol heads talking in a way where also would count myself as one of them.

00:12:08: But i do that, but think that I'm not typically consumer and people using car shing especially maybe are not so attached their car or emotion.

00:12:19: is it really the case?

00:12:20: Could you were able at some point see these data walking more for specific cars?

00:12:26: or is that sort of myth with love?

00:12:28: product created by users just want proximity and availability.

00:12:34: It depends for sure as well, let's say on what kind of mobility mode are you looking for?

00:12:39: We had for instance in the past when we started to offer... In addition to the free-floating minute based car sharing or hourly based carsharing ...we extended our service to daily base rentals right as well And therefore sure we saw that there is a specific customer group.

00:12:56: I don't want to say it's majority.

00:12:57: yeah That's not the case.

00:12:59: probably more younger men, male customers are looking for it in terms of if there is a more exciting car.

00:13:06: Is that convertible?

00:13:08: Then they may be interested and willing to walk on the one hand side but across the customer's I would say you're right It's okay, I just want to move from A-to B. The majority of them.

00:13:22: this is for sure a fair point here and when we had the smart photo in our fleet We definitely saw that it was a strong USB maybe From our perspective because the car is easy to park.

00:13:38: You know you were almost able To find everywhere parking lot For such a car And there was quite willingness Because another paypoint Of car sharing service provides is of course, finding a spot where you can leave and drop off your car on the parking spot.

00:13:54: And smart photo was very exciting in compelling car obviously but it depends finally as well on the regions maybe Germany's bit more.

00:14:05: that might be willingness for specific target group customer groups like maybe male customers, younger ones especially to jump on a car.

00:14:14: If you look at Italy and France or other markets this may be not that petrol guys as your persons just mentioned them who are willing in looking for specific car types.

00:14:26: yeah very good point.

00:14:27: also

00:14:30: the question of the car type is something we Sort of think a lot about in the industry, which car will be more convenient to actually be suited and stuff.

00:14:39: And at the end of day it's just whatever kind you can get best deal on or whatever you could get cheaply.

00:14:45: right now I'm not aware.

00:14:48: maybe there is one where they are like four hundred car shings in Germany right?

00:14:52: And two thousand Europe also.

00:14:53: but i am not aware that still using The smart, even though it makes so much sense in the city.

00:15:00: And It seems to me like the models that end up don't see its hard to understand what strategies behind it other than they probably got a good deal on a bunch of those is that isn't That in the end of day?

00:15:10: What drives which cars get deployed just which need to get pushed into the market

00:15:15: On the one hand side, and for a specific share of car sharing operators.

00:15:20: For sure as you just said I don't want to say it's all about getting cheap cars but yes for sure yeah means... It is very massive cost factor of your P&L.

00:15:31: Means that leasing rates, cars, you buy whatever has anyway have strong impact on this.

00:15:37: so definitely in one part It depends always what kind of level means how deep do you want to be integrated in the car?

00:15:45: Because other cost factors as well, let's say is it maintenance costs.

00:15:49: Is checking the vehicle health state of cars and the cars are getting more connected.

00:15:55: we from instance from Cardigo or Chernow in the past and Freedom of Of course as well What for us was very important and crucial To have a deeper possible integration into the car estate optimize the maintenance from our perspective to keep the car in a very good shape as well, and ensure strong and big fleet availability.

00:16:19: Plus depending on what kind of service or rental options you want to offer your customers.

00:16:28: I mentioned it briefly about free-floating car rental.

00:16:31: that's how we called it means day based rental.

00:16:33: some customers are expecting better equipment more options in the core?

00:16:39: Is it a navigation system here, for instance on one hand side is an aircon or etc.

00:16:45: So I think it depends what kind of strategy are you following if we want to operate and bigger scale deeper integration as important from my perspective to manage take care off the maintenance costs plus as well.

00:16:57: If your offering different mobility summed up modes then We talk about long term current Then probably should look equipped cars.

00:17:09: When you say long-term car rental from the end users perspective, that's basically pricing I think for operators like they can be more behind it availability and so on if cars get taken out of their fleet for longer all of a sudden.

00:17:20: but let's talk a little bit about pricing From your perspective.

00:17:24: Let's see somebody is launching with The most classic would be a minute based pricing.

00:17:28: then maybe there's an hourly rate.

00:17:29: Okay What are the next two or three pricing innovations?

00:17:34: That They should definitely do?

00:17:35: that make a big difference And maybe it's also one that you might as well skip.

00:17:40: It adds complexity, but doesn't really do anything.

00:17:47: I think what was for sure a very smart move, was introducing as well the kilometer-based pricing from a customer perspective.

00:17:54: What Miles did we clearly have as well to admit?

00:17:57: Very smart clever move in terms of change from a custom perspective it's easier to calculate regarding the pricing and so i think this really is an interesting option As you can see Miles has also been successful with that.

00:18:14: from now picking up on your question.

00:18:16: I think the minute-based pricing definitely very important and a good offering, hourly based clearly as well.

00:18:25: but The more hours you offer, is it for instance interesting to offer a twelve or sixteen hour package?

00:18:33: Don't think so.

00:18:34: In the end from customer perspective then rather jump as well and offer day-based rental.

00:18:39: I think this is very exciting opportunity From a car sharing perspective To optimize your utilization And create An interesting, let's say one-stop shop for the customer.

00:18:50: That is basically an idea of whatever you want to do when moving around a city with your car then have it in one hand and its easier as well to keep customers in your ecosystem.

00:19:03: From pure operator perspective I think looking into AI It is very exciting opportunity.

00:19:10: lets call dynamic pricing flexible pricing.

00:19:14: You know, we know Guna of course is let's say geeks mobility geeks that moving a car around means getting it from A to B can be done by a customer on the one hand side.

00:19:25: But if a customer drops a car off and then lets say cold zone how do you call it at next year?

00:19:31: Then from our bet means the probability is pretty low that a customer would pick it up within relatively short period of time than It's better to relocate the car.

00:19:41: And you can see this incentivize customers.

00:19:43: Well, with dynamic pricing means getting the prices down to incentivize the customer.

00:19:49: To do that really question or optimize as well.

00:19:51: and during peak zones let's say of today your margin will somehow driving up the price is in a reasonable way because you always should keep their customers in mind Because mobility customers are as well Of course very price sensitive.

00:20:06: Maybe.

00:20:06: final question on this section from your perspective, how important for the operator profitability are these upsells?

00:20:15: Let's say reduce your deductible any kind of options that might be living at the beginning off the rental to purchase additional packages.

00:20:25: Absolutely!

00:20:26: That is an operator point-of-view I think a very exciting and interesting opportunity from my perspective.

00:20:35: And, for the customer perspective as well especially probably if you're going to do longer rental is it one-to-day rental?

00:20:41: It's of course also personal choice but we offered in the past.

00:20:45: always let us say that customers package is an insurance package to avoid deductibles as you just said on the one hand side.

00:20:55: So it depends on the customer, but it helps you of course cover your costs and from a customer gives them pretty good feeling means everything is covered with reasonable price.

00:21:04: You can go for it.

00:21:06: And I've learned even let's say that CityBee for instance what they're doing is charging in each never rental.

00:21:13: A fair price means per ride roughly fifty cent something like this.

00:21:18: The customers accept welfare insurance coverage, and all the possible damages.

00:21:25: accidents are covered as long as you don't.

00:21:27: abuse means not driving while your drunk on one hand side or causing for what strange reason by speeding whatever an accident.

00:21:37: This is of course not covered but a very smart idea from my perspective.

00:21:41: it's not so painful from customer perspective.

00:21:43: if you calculate business understand that

00:21:48: I think that the impact this upsell has on their revenue is not so spectacular maybe, but it could be quite spectacular.

00:21:55: On the profitability because for example if you average cost per trip might be let's say ten euros and your putting a one euro reduce your deductible on top of people can opt into That's ten percent more revenue.

00:22:05: But your margin on this one year old might be fifty percent.

00:22:08: It depends what?

00:22:09: Not unrealistic.

00:22:10: And your overall margin on the trip might go from fifty cents to one Euro.

00:22:14: So basically you're only ten percent or revenue doubling your margin on the trip.

00:22:20: So I think that we are trying to give this optionality a lot in different parts of their user flow, maybe offer more ad sales?

00:22:45: Um, does it's not a full fleet management platform?

00:22:49: But I want to ask you later.

00:22:50: Why not?

00:22:51: maybe with that also makes sense.

00:22:52: It sitting on top of one at the moment And its two products The intelligence layer that predicts demand and tells You what to do next With a given vehicle and then the street crowd which is That gig-based execution network in both can Also run standalone.

00:23:07: so with that out Of the way stuff go under intelligence layer first.

00:23:12: Can you describe What data it's ingesting and what decisions its returning.

00:23:18: Yeah, of course happy to do so.

00:23:20: I like the analogy you brought up at the beginning.

00:23:23: exactly what is unique about Nectar?

00:23:26: we're combining the muscles and brain means muscle.

00:23:28: let's start.

00:23:29: We are using the street crowd app where we have access to our crowd community And building them up in taking care off all users.

00:23:36: on the other hand side with intelligent means The Brain means our database or algorithms an AI engine will have developed that basically unique of optimizing, reducing the idle times.

00:23:49: Of course for car sharing operate on one hand side and driving up the revenue here in other handside means what are we doing?

00:23:57: We're putting considering various mobility data across city.

00:24:05: mobility data, the customer is handing us based on their historic data with creating and using there operational area.

00:24:12: They have to find one hand side analyzing movement they had provided as considering movements that are across city operating areas of customers in clustering breaking it down into really small zones.

00:24:27: this not a standardized approach.

00:24:31: all of them are in the similar size.

00:24:33: It really depends on the geographical setup of city, length of a street where there's specific no parking zones.

00:24:39: so it is an individual tailor-made for each and every customer or city.

00:24:44: considering that we're optimizing and analyzing the biggest movement across during the day on one hand side and defining cold in hot zones, where probability is pretty high that a follower up rental would happen.

00:25:04: And based We can collaborate and work together with our street crowd to organize, manage the relocation at a very reasonable price across the city on one hand side.

00:25:17: To drive up revenue and make sure increase probability that a follow-up rental would happen in the other hand side.

00:25:23: And we could bring as well the dynamic pricing approach which I tried to explain few minutes ago means support our customers not only together but also based with our intelligence, to drive up the revenue on one hand side.

00:25:40: Reduce of course costs or optimize cost structure without street crowd service and finally reduce idle time of cars in assets for all partners.

00:25:48: Can you give us a bit more feeling what data are using?

00:25:54: I guess it's going be impossible list how many data points points that maybe are obvious and may be less expected.

00:26:04: Just give some examples of what you're pulling in.

00:26:06: Yeah, of course.

00:26:07: What are we pulling in is on the one hand side?

00:26:09: Of course movement data for our customers were taking mobility movement data from mobile network operators to understand the movements across the city.

00:26:18: We're considering weather conditions On the one-hand site where looping in as well Let's say geographical data like transportation hubs public transportation hubs etc.

00:26:29: events which Are happening across the City.

00:26:32: and so what we're considering Aswell Is it there a huge very important Socke went etc.

00:26:36: on a specific date?

00:26:37: all this is changing and influencing.

00:26:40: It's really like with it, yeah thing you can see when you look at the movement of such a city which is depending on seasons on day times On weather conditions.

00:26:50: any winds?

00:26:51: Of course Yeah.

00:26:51: This are probably the most important ones.

00:26:54: And With what you were doing I think prediction accuracy Is.

00:26:58: so if they make or break for this kind of layer in What possible today for you.

00:27:04: Can, can do measure this summer?

00:27:06: Can give us a feeling of how accurate your demand prediction would be.

00:27:11: one hour out six hours maybe twenty four hours out and what can that practically be used?

00:27:20: Of course, let's say the demand prediction.

00:27:23: we can provide it individually for each and every day during a week.

00:27:27: It is different one over-the-weekend in comparison to Thursday or Wednesday.

00:27:31: of course on the one hand side so... We are permanently optimizing changing with all factors considering all the factors I just mentioned.

00:27:42: So what is the accuracy?

00:27:43: easily?

00:27:44: Let us say twenty four hours ahead we can steer it and optimize this.

00:27:49: customers.

00:27:52: I'm not sure how to, let's say quantify this.

00:27:54: maybe like correct me what metric you're using.

00:27:56: but for example if he would say we are talking about a specific area and my prediction is in twenty four hours at the time window tomorrow there will be demand of ten rentals coming from this zone Like how accurate would this forecast be?

00:28:14: Will then in reality turn out to between nine and eleven or more, between five and fifteen.

00:28:19: How do you talk about like demands accuracy

00:28:23: I Would say in terms of accuracy probably around.

00:28:26: it's a deviate Of course always a bit but give your roughly arrange for probably been around ten Ten fifteen percent like there.

00:28:35: so maybe probably nine to eleven.

00:28:37: Well, let's assume as you just said we predict ten probably nine eight seven something up to eleven eleven dot five.

00:28:45: Something like this.

00:28:47: and uh We clearly can see across our past customers that were able in terms of driving Up the revenue between twenty-five two fifty sixty Seven percent or something Like this together means relying on Our demand prediction service yeah.

00:29:04: And The relocation Service we are offering

00:29:07: by enabling them to fulfill this latent demand that you have predicted, but they couldn't see in their own trips so far because of course was unfulfilled.

00:29:16: And um... You went straight to the twenty four hour mark and say maybe even there it's like plus minus fifteen percent.

00:29:24: I was expecting kind of that its sort getting less reliable further into future right?

00:29:29: But It seems like even twenty-four hours is not such a big challenge.

00:29:35: True, absolutely.

00:29:36: The more data you have and the more accurate your data model is getting... ...and this happens during a period of time means we're getting smart as well.

00:29:43: with each & every day here,... the more accurate we are getting.

00:29:48: And I think if i may jump briefly back what I forgot to mention about, What other variables or factors were considering?

00:29:55: The app openings is as well a thing We're considering.

00:29:58: it depends on the partner of course Aswell If they supporting us with this.

00:30:02: This Is A very good point To measure this in a Very Accurate way as Well.

00:30:07: and What Are the Dimensions so to speak that's an Operator has available to now try and match supply-and-demand when he has this prediction.

00:30:18: So of course your street crowd could be one solution, maybe I was always going to say like a last resort?

00:30:27: Like the most manual intervention may also cost the intervention.

00:30:31: what other tools would they have available?

00:30:37: Of course, what are other tools?

00:30:38: On the one hand side is really a flexible pricing engine.

00:30:41: It depends.

00:30:42: we provide that service but I know as well partners who're doing it by themselves.

00:30:46: That's definitely thing i would recommend.

00:30:48: in terms of playing around with dynamic pricing You can steer and support your customers Aswell And basically utilize them to optimize Your Service.

00:30:57: Maybe you cannot even phrase like this.

00:31:00: The second things on the One-Hand Side fleet size.

00:31:05: What are you driving for?

00:31:06: It's a cost factor with the feet size.

00:31:09: better your abilities.

00:31:12: The higher the probability that customers will change as well in their mobility mode, because you'll become a consistent part of their daily or weekly movement on one hand side.

00:31:26: and for the last variable also you need a specific customer size.

00:31:30: this is very difficult to look at.

00:31:33: when we started maybe around car sharing was a total completely new business.

00:31:40: Nobody was aware of what is car-sharing, so we need... What I want to say here is that we need much more time to train the customer and explain them or maybe not even explain how they got used to their service when offering means having access to our car.

00:31:57: That's an exciting thing!

00:31:58: Today it's totally different story because everybody more or less knows what car sharing is.

00:32:04: And now it's a question of availability, but nevertheless you need to have relatively strong and good, strong and big customer base to make sure your service is operating in an economical reasonable way from your

00:32:21: perspective.".

00:32:23: So you mentioned to respond to this demand forecast The tools in their toolbox.

00:32:30: one is pricing dynamic pricing.

00:32:32: You guys are also providing this as an intelligence layer.

00:32:36: if the client allows, If they wanted to you can set pricing dynamically for individual vehicles.

00:32:43: that challenge with That I imagine it's different from right healing.

00:32:47: we don't know where the user wants To go.

00:32:49: so uh We can only incentivize two.

00:32:51: please move away From here.

00:32:53: This probably not a good area.

00:32:55: i am there might end up In another bad area or even in A worse One.

00:33:00: Is that still effective in a set?

00:33:02: Still definitely the number one way of responding to demand forecast is just lowering price and definitely unattractive areas or other dimensions for pricing than I'm not thinking about.

00:33:14: Of course, that's for sure.

00:33:15: one point.

00:33:17: Absolutely right!

00:33:18: I think what... of course it is not always a pleasant factor but you can talk about drop-off fees here.

00:33:27: It depends on the target destination.

00:33:28: let us assume your moving to the airport.

00:33:32: Everybody understands that the Airport is relatively expensive.

00:33:36: area means there we charge them an extra airport fee normal in the meantime for all the car sharing service operators.

00:33:46: And on the other side, as you just said if there's maybe some areas let's call them a cold zone means probability pretty low that they will be pretty soon follow up rental.

00:33:57: then you can charge them with drop-off fee because don't want to cut off operating area different reasons.

00:34:05: this is an interesting factor and looking into probably not so pretty close future, because you said right-hating a strong advantage.

00:34:15: They can enter the target destination.

00:34:17: if I look into let's say The strong development on the car side means with all the APIs, the car manufacturers will provide in the close future.

00:34:29: This is well from a pure car sharing operator perspective – an opportunity to optimize that car rental in terms of your car-sharing ride so you could put as well into target destination because we want it combined with different trips here or our car-shering app would have access to your calendar and can offer thing, there could be a restaurant you want to kind of drop by etc.

00:34:52: So the better we understand the customer movement means let's talk about personalization The more opportunities will have as well in their hands To optimize business on one hand side but provide customers with much better experience.

00:35:20: Because he did that many times in the past, so probably it's going from home to work and I know where his workers.

00:35:24: And if that's a location i want the car in then i'm sending him a promotion but not everyone who is opening the apple automatically see their discount.

00:35:31: That future talk right?

00:35:33: Absolutely!

00:35:34: Not

00:35:35: today unfortunately.

00:35:36: Okay yeah But makes a ton of sense...I also wanted just spend few minutes on this sort.

00:35:42: second part of your product, the muscle.

00:35:45: The gig based street operations.

00:35:47: that's been a topic for a few years also in micro mobility and bird Lyme tier have built versions off sort of gig workers And they've been Also yeah sometimes from problems with it still persists until today.

00:36:02: I wonder how you are setting this up to keep their workers reliable and accountable because as an operator if i?

00:36:13: If I have this need, will it really work in the moment?

00:36:20: This of course is a very important factor.

00:36:24: Looking back to my time when i was working as a car sharing operator itself having access to operate as means workforces on the ground was pretty difficult.

00:36:35: It doesn't matter if we were relying in our internal team members, one-hand side or collaborating with external partners.

00:36:41: it's always having access to enough workforce and high fluctuation that partners are facing where a specific business is.

00:36:50: This is when our AI plays into effect on the natural side.

00:36:58: We're driving up a big community, depending on the partners and all the needs in this city.

00:37:03: Let's for instance take look at the Berlin.

00:37:05: we are talking here about streetcrowders of roughly five thousand crowd our community with roughly five-thousand Streetcrowers having them on the streets or in excess.

00:37:16: let us say not on the street.

00:37:18: And it is pretty similar to car sharing.

00:37:20: you have specific amount Power users on the car sharing business and pretty the same.

00:37:26: On the street crowd community, you ever relative small percentage where they say okay?

00:37:31: They're pretty reliable.

00:37:33: They want to really do a business here and combine it as well maybe with a convenience factor means hey I have to move anyway from A to B. Let me check in the app if there is a right If that would be a car available From a car sharing service operator or can't Do that?

00:37:47: ride an even earn a bit of money.

00:37:49: So its win-win situation.

00:37:51: yeah so I don't want to say simple, but it's a question of mathematics statistics.

00:37:59: The probability is simply much higher that there would be someone who can pick up the car and do the relocation.

00:38:09: Do we give a guarantee?

00:38:10: No!

00:38:10: But the probabilities are pretty high.

00:38:15: You said the probability is pretty high, so are you measuring.

00:38:18: The reliability of that street crowd and a kind of fulfillment rate like what percentage off jobs that operators posting there or actually getting done?

00:38:27: And how high might that realistically be?

00:38:32: I wouldn't like to share as well here, let's say a percentage on the one hand side.

00:38:35: But of course yeah we're definitely tracking On The One Hand Side how good are in terms of driving up?

00:38:42: The revenue for our customers or partners?

00:38:45: and the one-hand side How many of the relocations Are We Able To Fulfill Based On Our Demand Prediction Model?

00:38:51: If We See It Is Too Low Then We Will Definitely Try To Optimize It On TheOneHandSide Means Drive Up The Community.

00:38:59: If We Seed Lovers Or Its Not Enough So it's as well an active steering what we are doing on the other hand side and of course because you asked us Well, The question.

00:39:08: What else?

00:39:08: Are We Doing?

00:39:09: It's Of Course We're Trying for customers, or our customers in that case.

00:39:14: It's very important.

00:39:15: they're happy and satisfied as well with the quality we are doing.

00:39:18: means how long does a ride takes on one hand side?

00:39:21: is the car dirty afterwards?

00:39:23: For instance?

00:39:24: these are all for the car sharing operators' important questions and points.

00:39:29: We are monitoring here as well The quality And yes it's.

00:39:33: How Does it work?

00:39:36: Try to educate Our community driving as well a specific code of ethics across our community to make sure everything works out for both parties.

00:39:49: I think that some people might have hesitations about relying on the community approach in terms.

00:40:02: So can you give us like a feeling for what reliability level is realistic that your aiming?

00:40:08: For example, I guess it's not going to be like a fifty percent of the tasks get fulfilled.

00:40:12: Do you are aiming over ninety per cent or right around there?

00:40:19: Around?

00:40:20: this would definitely be what we're striving for absolutely.

00:40:25: I imagine.

00:40:25: there are certain events where it's then not possible after public viewing or so a ton of jobs that coming in, but most of the time.

00:40:33: It will be you already touched on.

00:40:36: oh no sorry before we go they're one.

00:40:38: to close the loop on an extra product.

00:40:39: um You mentioned impact early on maybe fifty percent revenue uplift?

00:40:44: Do you have examples of that?

00:40:46: even seventy percent In some case But like very meaningful super sizable Revenue Uplift by better matching supply and demand.

00:40:54: Can you comment on like what the cost side looks behind that?

00:40:57: Because I would be worried.

00:40:58: That yes, i can fulfill all this one.

00:41:00: if i do a ton of manual relocations but then not actually...i might actually be losing more money because im not making that much revenue as the relocation is costing me.

00:41:09: so Is there profitable growth?

00:41:13: If my revenue goes up fifty percent how will my costs go up at the same time?

00:41:19: Can I give you here a range?

00:41:22: On the one, yes of course.

00:41:24: Just thinking about it and thinking loud let's say... Of course what we are doing if you compare us with a normal service operator who is for sure having different price preposition on the one hand side means that we will be more attractive than lets' see in our normal service operators on the other hand side.

00:41:42: so from a constant site of course there would have been more attractive this point, but what we are taking care of course as well.

00:41:50: We're not doing relocations to optimize our business.

00:41:54: that's not the approach how we were working.

00:41:56: really trying to optimize the revenue uplift or the ROI for customers means to find a balance with do it in line and close alignment with the customer here because we don't want overdo it.

00:42:09: so means let's try to support them especially when we ramp up new customer who had taken enough time several months.

00:42:15: expand on that, explain them show the figures and going up step by step.

00:42:20: Because what we clearly don't want it's... We wanna avoid cannibalization of possible pure revenue optimization.

00:42:31: Pure original car means definitely not to cannibalize normal customer rights.

00:42:37: That is not approach how you work

00:42:41: And I think So you're facing this in close collaboration with the operator to achieve profitable growth.

00:42:49: And I think that part of the uplift comes from elements like dynamic pricing, as mentioned and relocation is actually a very probably still expensive through your street called efficient but still sort of an expensive intervention and then only doing not to gain single ride by moving car out.

00:43:09: now it's flowing in the system again.

00:43:10: before might have been there for another day and you're actually losing out on five or seven rides.

00:43:15: Now, we are bringing to another location.

00:43:17: so I think that is a really interesting kind of dance that your fulfilling with operator and

00:43:24: yeah

00:43:25: amazing too be able not only the recommendation but also execution.

00:43:30: Absolutely.

00:43:30: and I think what's another good point, it is not only about the costs we should take into account for the relocation itself.

00:43:37: It depends where car is parked.

00:43:38: let us assume that a car was left at an airport for instance incredibly expensive or inexpensive parking areas.

00:43:46: then its much smarter to do a relocation optimise as well the parking cost of our customers.

00:43:52: this can be easily in business case by itself.

00:43:55: I know it by heart, let's say the airport relocations we did chair now.

00:44:02: It was a really very important pillar on our hand side to optimize or cost them.

00:44:09: maybe you can spend a few minutes towards the end of your outlook towards.

00:44:14: autonomous vehicles may be tailor operated vehicles mixed fleets and so on.

00:44:18: We've just had number conversations around this also in last weeks outside.

00:44:27: What do you consider a realistic time then?

00:44:29: And do operators, car sharing operators in Europe have to do anything today already?

00:44:36: or is it just fair to observe and keep checking in on that but no need to act this year yet.

00:44:43: For autonomous you mean right

00:44:44: Or tailor operated.

00:44:46: yeah the advent of vehicles can also relocate themselves.

00:44:50: I think It definitely makes sense uh To look into about the traction.

00:44:54: or regarding the traction i think It won't happen tomorrow, but maybe in two or three years.

00:45:00: In a bigger scale that's what I see.

00:45:02: so as car sharing operator you might have the feeling today how we lost battle of race and comparison to right-tailing companies if u look at Uber, Lyft, Waymo and all other ones.

00:45:12: But it is definitely worth investigating into it.

00:45:19: It's about relocations on the one hand side or maybe even optimize.

00:45:23: The last mile concept means drop of a customer at the target destination, the teleoperator autonomous car could do finally move away right way would solve the biggest pain point finding a parking lot on the One Hand Side Or reducing let say the walking distance to the current.

00:45:40: this is for sure A strong thing and from a car sharing perspective From my point of view it really You know, as a car sharing operator how to manage the fleet?

00:45:50: How to steer them.

00:45:51: is it about maintenance.

00:45:53: Is it about how many cars do you need to operate this city in a sustainable way on one hand side?

00:46:00: and you shouldn't ask under estimate To have access to the car means customer identification.

00:46:06: Make sure that that customer who is entering the cost car, Is your customer?

00:46:10: Means from a security point of view.

00:46:12: I think there's strong advantage on the car sharing operator side.

00:46:16: We're looking at those strengths definitely worth to invest into it and be pretty bold in Your movement and thinking Into the future.

00:46:25: There's way for car-sharing as well.

00:46:32: or everybody, let's say to be fair has to very careful with the investments they're making.

00:46:38: It is a low margin industry so you don't necessarily want to be first test some innovation and then it was too early but could also good as second move on many of these things.

00:46:53: if there are few dozen car shing operators in Europe that have more than five hundred vehicles maybe thirty two forty, I think across Europe.

00:47:05: How many of them do you think will have at least one autonomous or tele-operated vehicle in their fleet next year?

00:47:14: Is that just the first two most sort of curious ones?

00:47:20: Or Most people would have that and if you don't have it You are risking to fall behind Next year,

00:47:27: that's a pretty close.

00:47:28: So I really think it is only few ones maybe two or three who could do this and are brave enough to do because as you said its'a tough market in the business.

00:47:38: car sharing.

00:47:40: What Do You Think These Few Are Most Trying To Learn?

00:47:46: Where Might They Gain An Advantage If Now Had This For A Year And Even if It Is Very Super Small Scale?

00:47:51: Right Just A Few Vehicles.

00:47:52: But What Are They?

00:47:53: Maybe Learning That Others Are Not Learning

00:47:56: The biggest learnings?

00:47:57: from my perspective on the one-hand perspective, it's first of all not maybe a learning but it is of course PR.

00:48:04: A lot of attention to the one hand side But for sure in terms utilisation we can make sure that customers are having access.

00:48:14: how does this work?

00:48:16: Having as well the first learnings and what might be the impact on their business, keeping in mind and walking distance to car as well parking lot.

00:48:27: These are biggest paid points from a car sharing perspective.

00:48:31: this is for sure our biggest learning.

00:48:33: finally we touched it at beginning you need critical mass of vehicles if want.

00:48:40: do car-sharing.

00:48:41: looking into future with autonomous cars the number of cars will have to decrease on one hand side due to price, but even because availability is a totally different one.

00:48:52: The cars are moving permanently around so we'll also have first step an indication.

00:48:57: what does it mean for your P&L in terms of numbers and assets you need to operate such business?

00:49:06: Super interesting!

00:49:07: Super fascinating topics from my perspective like anyone who's in this industry.

00:49:11: thanks a lot for sharing so openly You know, metrics that could be considered normal the way you're making the actual product work and also.

00:49:21: kind of a realistic assessment on maybe the timeline, or the advent these newer vehicles.

00:49:25: where my takeaway is it's still okay to also just be talking and observing.

00:49:30: You're not late for the party if you don't have one in your fleet yet but I think continues to be super interesting And i can see how economics will change as well.

00:49:41: The user experience would change when this vehicle actually come?

00:49:44: I think the markets we could be addressing are much larger And I hope that we get a chance to reconnect and check in on this coming months, years as that's unfolding.

00:49:56: Thanks for being so generous with your knowledge and

00:50:07: time!